I actually felt myself sweating a bit and rooting for each of the outlined scenarios and love how “cringe” was spun as a positive instead of a negative.
Bravo.
With that said, as someone that is simply a “fan” and “studier” of music and lyrics, and has never dabbled into songwriting personally, I do wonder how you, and your songwriting cohort, view artists that have chosen “cringe” over substance as a way to simply maintain relevancy.
Let me explain.
I was a huge fan of the band Train. Many may know them from their early radio hits “Meet Virginia” and “Drops of Jupiter” and, hopefully, some may have taken a chance of purchasing the full length albums that accompanied these singles.
Perhaps some, like me, could imagine how difficult it must have been for their management and A&R executives to pinpoint a song to pitch to radio, because many songs on these albums sounded completely different then the song that landed on the radio. And they were good songs. With solid music and even better lyrics. Songs that made you feel grateful for the single that introduced you to the band, but you often skipped over it in favor of even better songs that would never get radio play.
So the band continues to ride the success of their sophomore album, “Drops of Jupiter”, for a few more albums which feel similar, but still comforting in their familiarity, but don’t necessarily feel stagnant and still show signs of growth. They have a “minor” chart misstep with an album called “For me, it’s you” (which happens to me my favorite album of theirs) and you start to feel the inevitable pressure and shift of their sound.
And they recover with a hit single “Hey, Soul Sister” but now, when you listen to the full album, instead of hearing songs that make you want to “skip” the radio single, you realize every song is written to be a radio single.
Most of their albums going forward charted pretty well, but only because of the lead single. A revolving door of musicians have come and gone, leaving only Pat Monahan, lead singer, as the only remaining founding member in the band. Their 2017 album, “A girl, a bottle, and a boat” featured “inspiring” songs titled “Drink Up”, “Working Girl”, and “Loverman”. Their 2022 album, “AM Gold” featured much the same.
So, maybe I’m missing something.
I’m all for creative freedom and growth for artists and I never expect (or want) to hear the same song/album twice.
But I have to ask, is their a certain level of disappointment towards “cringe” when it feels like an intentional “sellout” to get radio play in lieu of, as you so eloquently put it, actually using “cringe” as a form of risk to better yourself as a songwriter? When you’re intentionally writing the song for the “hook”, that will get you radio play and printed on t-shirts to sell at your shows?
Please understand, I’m not opposed to these tactics being used occasionally, but when it feels so blatantly intentional, it feels lazy and like the artist is simply phoning it in.
Some decide that commercial success is part of the reason they write. Some, like Train, have big deals, and a lot of mouths to feed, in the band, in the tour buses, etc. so they have pressure to write “the hit.”
For “Hey, Soul Sister” they brought in Amund Bjorklund (a friend of mine who used to teach w/me at NYU), and his focus is on hits, NOT album tracks. I assume Pat reached out in order to add some sauce to their material. Not unusual, right? Taylor Swift wrote w Max Martin, Rob Thomas worked w Benny Blanco, and there are all kinds of collabs bouncing around.
Being a long-running self-contained act is incredibly difficult when you wish to keep swimming in such wildly shifting tides. “Music Business” is two words that have a tough time relating to each other. There are negotiations, compromises, and a TON of luck. They were NOT expecting “Hey, Soul Sister” to do what it did.
Funny aside, since you asked: Amund and I actually wrote something for the followup for that album. The track is the beat from the “Springtime” version on “Vicious Circle”. Pat sang over it - something about drinking and needing to give the keys to someone else to drive, or something - and alas, it did not make the album. Big hooks, though. That’s for sure, lol.
Thank you, Mike, for your response and perspective, and for sharing your personal connection to the band.
I’m glad I didn’t write about Coldplay, a band that is miles away from where they started with songs like “Yellow”, “Politik, and the “Hardest Part” and currently release albums that have song titles that are astrological symbols.
Geez.
Anyway, this dialogue has helped me understand some of the “why” that artists make when crafting a song and, as a fan, I’m sorry that you all feel the pressure from labels and executives that you sometimes have to sacrifice your craft in order to stay relevant.
Well, some do, and some don't care. Some just hear something that's way off the pop trail, or they do jazz, contemporary classical, etc. Train is/was ambitious, so they felt the pressure. But those hits have set them up for touring as long as they like.
This is so honest, helpful, and so accurate - certainly when reflecting on much of my own experience in writing, music, and in life, if I expand it out. The desire to reach out further but being pulled back by…well, cringe. Bravo!
What a good read.
I actually felt myself sweating a bit and rooting for each of the outlined scenarios and love how “cringe” was spun as a positive instead of a negative.
Bravo.
With that said, as someone that is simply a “fan” and “studier” of music and lyrics, and has never dabbled into songwriting personally, I do wonder how you, and your songwriting cohort, view artists that have chosen “cringe” over substance as a way to simply maintain relevancy.
Let me explain.
I was a huge fan of the band Train. Many may know them from their early radio hits “Meet Virginia” and “Drops of Jupiter” and, hopefully, some may have taken a chance of purchasing the full length albums that accompanied these singles.
Perhaps some, like me, could imagine how difficult it must have been for their management and A&R executives to pinpoint a song to pitch to radio, because many songs on these albums sounded completely different then the song that landed on the radio. And they were good songs. With solid music and even better lyrics. Songs that made you feel grateful for the single that introduced you to the band, but you often skipped over it in favor of even better songs that would never get radio play.
So the band continues to ride the success of their sophomore album, “Drops of Jupiter”, for a few more albums which feel similar, but still comforting in their familiarity, but don’t necessarily feel stagnant and still show signs of growth. They have a “minor” chart misstep with an album called “For me, it’s you” (which happens to me my favorite album of theirs) and you start to feel the inevitable pressure and shift of their sound.
And they recover with a hit single “Hey, Soul Sister” but now, when you listen to the full album, instead of hearing songs that make you want to “skip” the radio single, you realize every song is written to be a radio single.
Most of their albums going forward charted pretty well, but only because of the lead single. A revolving door of musicians have come and gone, leaving only Pat Monahan, lead singer, as the only remaining founding member in the band. Their 2017 album, “A girl, a bottle, and a boat” featured “inspiring” songs titled “Drink Up”, “Working Girl”, and “Loverman”. Their 2022 album, “AM Gold” featured much the same.
So, maybe I’m missing something.
I’m all for creative freedom and growth for artists and I never expect (or want) to hear the same song/album twice.
But I have to ask, is their a certain level of disappointment towards “cringe” when it feels like an intentional “sellout” to get radio play in lieu of, as you so eloquently put it, actually using “cringe” as a form of risk to better yourself as a songwriter? When you’re intentionally writing the song for the “hook”, that will get you radio play and printed on t-shirts to sell at your shows?
Please understand, I’m not opposed to these tactics being used occasionally, but when it feels so blatantly intentional, it feels lazy and like the artist is simply phoning it in.
And that makes me want to “cringe”…
Thanks for your engagement and insight.
Tough one.
Some decide that commercial success is part of the reason they write. Some, like Train, have big deals, and a lot of mouths to feed, in the band, in the tour buses, etc. so they have pressure to write “the hit.”
For “Hey, Soul Sister” they brought in Amund Bjorklund (a friend of mine who used to teach w/me at NYU), and his focus is on hits, NOT album tracks. I assume Pat reached out in order to add some sauce to their material. Not unusual, right? Taylor Swift wrote w Max Martin, Rob Thomas worked w Benny Blanco, and there are all kinds of collabs bouncing around.
Being a long-running self-contained act is incredibly difficult when you wish to keep swimming in such wildly shifting tides. “Music Business” is two words that have a tough time relating to each other. There are negotiations, compromises, and a TON of luck. They were NOT expecting “Hey, Soul Sister” to do what it did.
Funny aside, since you asked: Amund and I actually wrote something for the followup for that album. The track is the beat from the “Springtime” version on “Vicious Circle”. Pat sang over it - something about drinking and needing to give the keys to someone else to drive, or something - and alas, it did not make the album. Big hooks, though. That’s for sure, lol.
Thank you, Mike, for your response and perspective, and for sharing your personal connection to the band.
I’m glad I didn’t write about Coldplay, a band that is miles away from where they started with songs like “Yellow”, “Politik, and the “Hardest Part” and currently release albums that have song titles that are astrological symbols.
Geez.
Anyway, this dialogue has helped me understand some of the “why” that artists make when crafting a song and, as a fan, I’m sorry that you all feel the pressure from labels and executives that you sometimes have to sacrifice your craft in order to stay relevant.
That sucks.
Well, some do, and some don't care. Some just hear something that's way off the pop trail, or they do jazz, contemporary classical, etc. Train is/was ambitious, so they felt the pressure. But those hits have set them up for touring as long as they like.
This is so honest, helpful, and so accurate - certainly when reflecting on much of my own experience in writing, music, and in life, if I expand it out. The desire to reach out further but being pulled back by…well, cringe. Bravo!
A review of Kid Rock’s performance from the RNC last night…
“The word "cringe" was often used. As was other, stronger language.”
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2024/07/18/social-media-reactions-to-kid-rocks-rnc-performance-at-fiserv/74464693007/
I wouldn’t even think to watch it for various reasons but I’m sure the review is accurate
This is great. Super useful. Thanks.